Marc Levinson is an independent economist and historian. He is the author of The Box (2006) and several other books, a former finance and economics editor of The Economist, a former senior fellow of the Council on Foreign Relations, and a former sell-side analyst. His work has focused on trade, finance, globalization, and business.

In his new book, Outside the Box, he argues that a fourth phase of globalization is underway, which will no longer be defined by cost optimization through shipping physical goods. Instead, the fourth globalization is about the spreading of ideas and services trade. In a conversation with Philipp Carlsson-Szlezak, he discusses the likely impact of this shift on inequality, inflation, the trade-off between efficiency and resilience, and the U.S.-China decoupling.